Except that, a nurse might have an undergraduate degree in something other than nursing, and get the nursing training later in a master’s degree program. As women, we often hear men complain about (or even make fun of) a girlfriend who doesn't earn as much money as they do. For the record though, I can't think of any rockstars who have gone back and gotten an MD, as opposed to physics (Brian May and Brian Cox). The nurse may have a better perspective from being with the patient all day, but they are generally not smarter than the MD. degree, so a D.O. Last point, I promise! Eh, sometimes I think I'm smarter than my doctor. But we’re not all terrible. So please, from a fellow nurse, where exactly does this arrogance come from? Unfortunately, every time something becomes cool, a lot of people are in such a hurry to jump on the bandwagon that they … I've met a lot of mathematicians who complain that physicist simplify math too much and don't care about researching things. Ok so I'm in med school right now and I've been having a debate with a few roommates regarding this question. Anyone in physics or math tells you there isn't a lot of memorization involved is lying. brocnizer2007, i can't help but think that you are exaggerating a tad bit. They do this for years until they have a large enough sample size to learn something. For example, for my specialty, I have to know I wide range of both medical, diagnostic, and physics facts in order to do my job. Furthermore, some in the health field believe that a D.O. Understand it in the physicist sense, yes. However math and physics in any given semester, You probably tackle anywhere from 50-100 concepts, methods of problem solving etc. And I don't see the value in it either. Nurses act like they are the only profession who walk all day long (which isn't the case since 1/3+ of your shift is charting). I think a lot of people can be smart and pass their tests, but what makes a great doctor is having the knowledge and being able to apply it, a good work ethic and excellent people skills (most specialties). What do you guys think? I never explicitly memorized in those classes, but you have to remember a lot still. The question is phrased improperly. I think the individuals you are thinking of are a minority within the nursing community. My second theory is that all doctors believe themselves to be noble, kind, and beloved by all. It seems pointless clinically, but it really isn't, it is hard to describe here, but it makes desciribng clinical problems much easier. There are many times that I think doctors don’t do best for their patients, but I never think it is because they are stupid. Most aren't like that, but I've met PLENTY of biomedical engineers who complain that doctors "just use" their devices, and I've met tons of physicists who complain that engineers "just apply" what they research. Something to take into account is culture. You gain familiarity with lots of lower division mid-divison math and physics. And for the record, as someone with a PhD, lots of PhDs aren't nearly as smart as they think they are. But to answer your question I think each field have their own level of difficulty. social) work, but you definitely can't BS your way through math and physics or understand it simply by working hard. This is a highly moderated subreddit. Answer: If you have lived in the period of our fathers like some fifty years ago, it would be something like this – the nurses wore the cap while the doctors wear the smock and the stethoscopes. I don't know where the attitude comes from in all cases but in my experience the people with the biggest attitudes are usually compensating for something (lack of knowledge/skill/judgement). I don't understand higher math at all. Nurses often delegate the gross stuff to the CNA’s. You don't gain anything from them, and if you feel like you need it to feel good about yourself, you should probably look into why. I couldn't last elsewhere, pulling a lever on an assembly line or whatever, because that sense of purpose is my soul food. There’s a definite sense of holier-than-though, self-important, self-congratulatory, sanctimony pervasive in medicine, and nursing is no exception. Why can doctors be so cowered? Nurses obtain a Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) to gain advanced practice knowledge to provide safe and effective care for patients. Nurse who knows everything becomes an administrator, is then stripped of omniscient powers to become one again dumber than nurses. One quick thought. Press J to jump to the feed. I had to take Calc I-III, DiffEQ, PDEQ, Discrete Math, Numerical Analysis, Physical Real and Complex Analysis, plus all the "basic" physics before I apply it in my research. tl;dr: Medicine is definitely difficult. For instance doctors are put through the wringer sometimes working 24 hours straight during their training. And they get paid half as much as nurses do. Patients are 100% heavier than 30 years ago, which places the nurse at risk for patient-handling injuries such as neck or back strain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday%27s_law_of_induction. Having a thoughtful and analytical discussion with a doc, on a topic outside of medicine, isn't necessarily always enlightening. Kind of like people for a raised in a rough environment and then act accordingly. Then you can study high level probability, bayesian analysis, Markovian analysis. I was both in a PhD program, dropped out, and later completed my MD at a top institution. Nurses see the consequences of DVTs daily, it's reasonable that they would try to take care of their own health & comfort. There are many times that I think doctors don’t do best for their patients, but I never think it is because they are stupid. Medicine is so, so much more complex than doctors think. It's just more noticeable in nursing because we're literally 80% of the staff employed in almost any health care setting/hospital. Just some of the loud ones. Oh yeah and gee thanks I get three weeks of leave from my employer when the baby arrives. I don't think "pretty much everyone" can do it. And P.S. And while those in other professions may possess other intelligence, it's not nearly as integral to being good at their job, as it is for physicians. They just happen to be the majority of middle class participants, making them more numerous, relatable, and visible. Saved and much appreciated. and intellectually they may be below some other fields. Same with medicine. It is different than running a 5 minute mile, or running a marathon in 6 hours. The one thing I will say is I've rarely met a physicist I would call stupid, on the other hand I've met plenty of stupid doctors. I don't like nurses that aren't happy with being a nurse and feel that they're entitled and capable to do whatever a doctor can do when they aren't. I have asked myself this same question. While NPs have more training than a registered nurse, they receive less training than a doctor. Hell, even when it comes to our shoes and compression stockings. What does that say about my intellect? I think medicine is a lot of really complex topics, that are dumbed down to some extent since there is no need for a huge level fo complexity on individual topics. The biggest difference between the two is the amount of time spent on training. Rule #2 of the ER: There are always a lot more nurses than doctors. There’s something to be said about getting to hangout at work, versus you know, having actual responsibilities like at a nursing job. Yet, almost every layperson associates a physician with an M.D. Damn did you really just go there with the bit about being on our feet all day? And we are … most of the time. Pretty much regarded as the introductory math-stem sequence. Also sorry in advance for the stupid question, I am one of the few people here I think who does both, I have a PhD in BME and my MD of course, and I have a bachelors in engineering and math. Plus, I guarantee you higher level math is useful in clinical medicine, it just needs to be structured into education and doctors who know math and physics and write textbooks that help guide clinicians in how to use it. Everyone has a different way of thinking that enables them to approach different aspects of the universe in a different way. And it is super fun to try thigns out and apply math. Learning anatomy despite seeming like a lot of memorization actually, requires very high visuospatial skills the average person definitely doesn't have. Went to a tech school before med school and I feel that my college friends were much smarter than my med school friends. Math and physics while you probably need a minimum level of intelligence to participate, is understandable with a lot of work. What are we using as the definition of "smart" or intellectually challenging? Don't let arrogance get in the way of your life or your job". ... That is not to say nurse practitioners don’t have skills (they do), but they are not interchangeable with physicians. Many of the difficulties in medicine comes from being able to integrate the entire clinical picture. However, memorizing a lot of info is a unique skill that can be difficult to master. Do I understand most of it? I don't know if I feel as strongly as you do , but I agree in some sense . What makes being a doctor difficult, imo, is taking a vast amount of knowledge and applying to to real people in life/death situations when there is not necessarily a correct or known answer. Even if you never need that information, that style of thinking translates very well to being good at clinical medicine. Seems like you have a personal problem with an individual or group of individuals. So he said while arguably learning basic physiology isn't as complex as say quantum mechanics, it isn't easy either, it is just different. Rule #3 of the ER: Nurses occasionally fight amongst themselves, but if there is discord between a nurse and a doctor you can bet your last dime that the nurses will band together to assail the doctor. Math and physics are a lot like languages honestly. All are welcome. Math and physics are more challenging in terms of abstract reasoning and conceptualization. One of the things that I find interesting about how doctors and nurses are trained. Not much beyond the fact that I am stronger in some areas than others. Their logic was "medicine is nowhere near as abstract and difficult to grasp as higher level math. I never met a nurse who said she knew more than a doctor. The doctors are the gods of the medical team and the nurses are there to obediently follow and fulfill the orders of the doctors. Try to celebrate the differences instead of arguing about them. So I’m not part of a modern care “team” in patient management. Any other person in any other profession can get the damn stockings, why is that an issue? When a guy dates a nurse, that role is often reversed. I don't think doctors are any smarter than other professions (law, engineering, science, etc.) Pretty much everyone can get an MD if they work hard whereas some people will never get a PhD in math/physics no matter how hard they work". Since the 1960s, there have been over 150,000 Filipino nurses who have migrated to the U.S. Med school wasn't even close. Let me tell you a story, I used to be all about being "intellectually superior" to others because I knew some fancy math and chemistry. But to be a truly good physician, you have to possess or develop intelligence on the abstract, emotional, and physical levels (or just the first two if you abhor procedures). Pop quiz: How does a nurse differ from a doctor? Doctors, for example, perform surgeries, and nurses may make preliminary diagnoses or — in spending more time with patients — uncover information that leads to new diagnoses. There is also no shortage of people who even upon getting into medical school struggle with the volume of knowledge that there is to learn. Real Doctors Share Why They Decided To Become Ob-Gyns. throwaway because downvotes to hell i'm sure. Medical lingo can be confusing—but maybe ignorance is bliss. Other than politics I can't think of a field where there is such arrogance.